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| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| Floyd |
Posted - 21 Apr 2017 : 10:46:50
HQ has ordered Mechanized Batallions to the defence in grid 4.6.
The enemy reacted by routing several mobile SA-11 to the FLOT.
They are currently crossing from grid 4.6 to 3.9, heading south west.
The first picture shows the general situation and the flight paths.
The second picture shows possible targets for the SEAD flights.
Due to the increased air thread we also launch two Escort flights.
Plan your flights carefully and use good comms to synchronize your attacks.
Package 15842
Preconditions:
MS per pilot is RTB and a parked jet,
PS is given for RTB w/o proper parking the jet (crash on landing ...),
MF otherwise (airframe lost/destroyed for any reason).
Cowboy1 and Panther1 are 4-ship SEAD flights.
MS success is given for at least 50% hit of fired munition
per flight, PS is given for at least 25%.
Fury1 and Python1 are 4 ship Escort flights.
MS is no losses by A2A to the SEAD flights,
PS is given for 2 losses max.
Cowboy and Fury are from the 911th squadron, taking off from Chongju,
Panther and Python are from the 912th squadron, taking off from Yeonchon.
IDA will be from Python1.
Python11 is package commander.
Timings:
Flight Task TO PP TOT IDM VHF TACAN FL
Cowboy1 SEAD 07:18 07:31 07:41 1 1 11/74 250
Fury1 Escort 07:16 07:29 07:39 2 2 16/79 280
Panther1 SEAD 07:17 07:27 07:35 3 3 21/84 250
Python1 Escort 07:15 07:25 07:33 4 4 26/89 280
Flight path is fixed for mutual support.
The weather is fair at home plates and sunny at the target.
Good Hunting
Floyd
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Flight Leads in this Sunday's official campaign mission, "TvT 2017 Mission 14" are requested
to post a debrief of their flights actions, including any lessons learned or that should be
learned by others.
Please put the following information at the top of your post:
Flight Role: (SEAD, ESCORT, STRIKE, Etc..)
Callsign11: "Pilot's name" AA=X AG=X RTB,MIA/KIA,EJT
Callsign12: "Pilot's name" AA=X AG=X RTB,MIA/KIA,EJT
Callsign13: "Pilot's name" AA=X AG=X RTB,MIA/KIA,EJT
Callsign14: "Pilot's name" AA=X AG=X RTB,MIA/KIA,EJT
MS/PS/MF |
| 11 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| Floyd |
Posted - 27 Apr 2017 : 17:11:04
Black flight gets a PS with 2 hits out of 6 missiles fired (> 25%). |
| Fisty |
Posted - 26 Apr 2017 : 21:10:11
Ok, I'm away in UK until Saturday, so hopefully next week when I get home, I'll put a tutorial and video together and post them when finished. |
| Vosene |
Posted - 26 Apr 2017 : 17:39:36
Yes go ahead and post please Fisty.
Provided you can stay outside of the SAM WEZ with some margin then this is a valid tactic. Having to get too close puts you at risk of both pushing it too far and being engaged by the SAM you are targeting and other SAMs lighting up and engaging you, such as a slightly closer SA-11.
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| Fisty |
Posted - 26 Apr 2017 : 07:50:12
Actually the square in the circle method can give you a slight edge, certainly against sa4, sa11 and sa2. I've done some testing with it and if you're carrying mavs you can engage up to about 17-19 nm. This is fine against movers such as sa4 and sa11 (I think?). For non mover, take 1 harm and 4 sdb. Then your range is only restricted by the view on the tgp - you have to be able to see the emitter on tgp to lock it up with a sdb. I've done quite a bit of square in the circle practice and I can try to post a video showing the technique against both movers and static, mav and sdb if you like? |
| Ironman |
Posted - 25 Apr 2017 : 21:01:53
I said the same thing about RUK and to be honest it would be more useful if it did go "active off the rail" but Zip has already taken this to the devs with the ACMI evidence we worked out the 20 mile activation range - their response is that it is modeled correctly and the manual will be changed to reflect the 20 mile active parameter.
NB. it is 20 miles from the active steer point NOT 20 miles in front of your jet !!!
I also agree about the 65G's but you did ask ;0)
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| Vosene |
Posted - 25 Apr 2017 : 20:45:37
Thanks Ironman, great info.
I'm not a huge fan of tootling around with a Maverick trying to hit SAM systems with almost as long a range as me. It is exhirerating stuff but a high risk tactic and it is the one you didn't see that often gets you.
Is that a bug/incorrect modeling of RUK mode in BMS? I can't believe that is how the real mode operates seeing as the title is Range UnKnown. Surely it must go active off the rail with an unknown range? It also seems too close to PB mode, noting that in PB mode it goes active at 15nm.
Zipgun any other info on RUK mode with this tactic and if this is a bug that is going to be fixed in a future update of BMS?
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| Ironman |
Posted - 25 Apr 2017 : 19:11:13
1. RUK - however - there is always a "how ever" in BMS - you should know that the manual is incorrect the HARM does NOT go active off the rail, it goes active 20 miles from the selected STP. Zip may be able to give a better explanation as we have done some work on RUK.
Be warned if the mover is a known or pop up if it is not within 20 miles of the selected STP the HARM will over fly it unseen even if the SAM is radiating.
That said if you want to nail a moving SAM, in the vicinity of a know STP, this is your best option, but you need good intel to plan this kind of mission.
2. 65G (longer reach) using the circle and square method but don't hang around or you will be walking home - at best - carried home at worst ;0)
If you cant get a shot off at max range turn and burn !!!!
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| Vosene |
Posted - 24 Apr 2017 : 18:43:15
Based on the TACVIEW debrief, the HARM that hit but didn't show as a hit on the BMS debrief should count as a kill and the scores/mission outcome be updated to reflect this as required.
Secondly, my experience with using HARMS against moving targets is that they usually miss so two questions:
1. Has anyone been consistently successful in engaging moving SAM with HARMS? If so how do you do it?
2. If HARMS aren't the right weapon against moving SAMs, any thoughts on what weapons/tactics combination will work while minimizing the risk to the attacking aircraft?
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| Floyd |
Posted - 24 Apr 2017 : 16:22:02
The first missile was a hit and is shown in TacView.
Perhaps it didn't count because of the non-flat terrain?!
Even if the missile does not explode - it hit the vehicle with 1300 kts TAS.
The second missile was a clear miss, perhaps the SA-11 switched radar off. |
| Veiland |
Posted - 24 Apr 2017 : 14:53:56
Flight Role: SEAD
Cowboy11: Veiland AA=0 AG=1 RTB
Cowboy12: Floyd AA=0 AG=0 RTB
Cowboy13: FlyingStone AA=0 AG=0 RTB
MF
Nothing much to add about the ingress and egress/RTB.
We attempted to engage using HAS mode, but we only managed to kill 1 SA-11 on the move.
Looking at the ACMI it looked like half our missiles were tracking but missed the moving target.
Floyds had a missile that hit in ACMI but the target continued unaffected and was logged as a miss in debrief.
All HARM's was fired in HAS mode.
Every time you switch to WPN page you have to reselect HAS mode.
Do you have to have the target within the horizontal rectangle at the bottom of the HUD ?
I belive my first HARM, which hit, was just fired with the HARM roughly aligned inside the HUD.
My second HARM, which missed, was fired inside the rectangle.
Since you are using the sensor of the HARM to aquire target I think you just need to be roughly aligned.
Also lack of range caret confused me a little.
We should perhaps have fired off the HARMS just outside the SA-11 range to minimize flight time.
We definitely should have asked ZipGun for proper use of HAS mode during briefing.
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| utopic |
Posted - 23 Apr 2017 : 21:00:32
Flight Role: ESCORT
Fury11: Utopic AA=1 AG=0 RTB
Fury12: Echion AA=0 AG=0 RTB
Fury13: Zipgun AA=2 AG=0 RTB
Fury14: Vosene AA=1 AG=0 RTB
MS
When getting close to the FLOT, we had Pather 1, an AI flight engage enemy contacts. We were futher away and couldn't burn through the jamming, and even though we had the first element investigate the bandits, we ended up turning cold.
In the end, Panther took out the enemies and we started the briefed cap. I did remember asking Cowboy to hold when they asked, but it looks the comms didn't go through.
Since Cowboy engaged and until they were Arizona, there were no other bandits, but then we had nails 16 coming in from north and we engaged. Looks like we took out the escort of a Su25 group, along with one Su25.
After that we called RTB and landed.
Good flight! |
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