| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| tiag |
Posted - 23 Feb 2014 : 18:08:36
Operation Northern Storm
(Theater Israel 0.991)
Storms are gathering again on the border of Israel and Syria and the 185th is more one time called for duty.
Pilots of the 185th landed this afternoon at the airbase of Hatzerim, Israel, in preparation to support the israeli air force in the upcoming campaign. In the next days, the 185th will be flying several local area training sorties with its sister squadron at the Hatzerim AB, the 107th "Knights of the orange Tail". Check ATO for local area training flights this week.
Although very speculative at the moment, classified sources suggest war may start very soon if diplomacy talks later this week fail.
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| 14 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| tiag |
Posted - 16 Mar 2014 : 15:45:28
First of all: Wikipedia is not really a source, but ok, lets go through it.
1) AGM-45: No mention that israeli has the HARM. It just says that the AGM-45 was phased out.
2) Link on the munitions: It is a list of all weapons that Israel ever used. AGM-45 is on the list. (?)
3) It is well known that Obama offered the HARM. But the transaction was not completed, according to USA and israeli officials. But it may take place in near future.
Now my sources:
a) Weapons transfer by SIPRI:
http://portal.sipri.org/publications/pages/transfer/trade-register
Look up for missiles sales in the last 30 years USA-> Israel
I see no HARM. Last AGM-65 sale was 80-82. I see tons of JDAMs and GBUs in the last two decades.
b) Military Balance (looked up all editions that I have since 80s.)..sorry, no links, I have the books/pdfs.
AGM-88 never mentioned in the inventories of Israel. Following missiles/systems are listed (copy and paste):
-------------------
eqUipMent by type
MSL• STRATEGIC
IRBM: Jericho2
SRBM: Jericho1
WARHEADSup to 200 nuclear warheads
AT • MSL
SP M113 with Spike
MANPATSIMI MAPATS; Spike MR/LR/ER/NLOS
AD• SAM
SP 20 Machbet
MANPADFIM-92A Stinger
RADAR• LANDAN/PPS-15 (arty); AN/TPQ-37 Firefinder
(arty); EL/M-2140 (veh)
MSL100
STRATEGIC#949;100 Jericho1 SRBM/Jericho2 IRBM
TACTICAL• SSM(7 Lancein store)
AIR DEFENCE
3 bty with Arrow/Arrow2
1 bty with Iron Dome
17 bty with MIM-23 I-HAWK
6 bty with MIM-104 Patriot
MSL
ASM AGM-114 Hellfire; AGM-62B Walleye; AGM-65
Maverick; PopeyeI/PopeyeII; DelilahAL
AAM • IR AIM-9 Sidewinder; Python 4;IIR Python 5;
ARH Derby; AIM-120A/C AMRAAM
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I see on this list the AGM-62B and a general AGM-65 (version?). That could indicate that these AGM are still used. I have to say that I never found ANY picture or mention of F-16s of any type in the last decade in Israel carrying these weapons. I have a photo of a Phantom in the 80s carrying AGM-65...
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| utopic |
Posted - 16 Mar 2014 : 13:06:02
True enough, but that still doesn't address the issues that I was raising: if multiple sources say they carry certain weapons (modeled & present in BMS) why aren't they present in the campaign's inventory?
I'm not throwing rocks at anyone, I'm just asking what I consider to be a justified question under these circumstances. |
| tiag |
Posted - 16 Mar 2014 : 10:28:38
You are forgetting that BMS cannot model the EW capabilities found in the F-16I. Why do you think there is a EWO in this acft? It must have a huge capability of jamming etc. The guys of the ITO tried to adapt within the contraints of BMS by increasing the jamming strength of specific israeli platforms. See the DOCs directory in the ITO install.
Besides, Target Decoys/Drones are almost a israeli invention. In RL, it is expected these drones would be sent as a first wave to saturate the enemy IADS. Take a look here:
http://www.raytheon.com/capabilities/products/mald/
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ADM-141_TALD
In principle such drones could be "simulated" in BMS by adding them as "airplanes" in the database and launching it from specific bases. I did some modding tests in this regard and seems to work within some constraints. We can talk more about it later if you are interested on it. |
| utopic |
Posted - 15 Mar 2014 : 20:08:51
So I don't understand this:
quote:
It [the Shrike] was phased out by U.S. in 1992[1] and at an unknown time by the Israeli Air Force (the only other major user), and has been superseded by the AGM-88 HARM missile. The Israel Defense Forces developed a version of the Shrike that could be ground-launched and mounted it on an M4 Sherman chassis as the Kilshon (Hebrew for Trident).
Sources: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AGM-45_Shrike
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_munitions_used_by_the_Israeli_Air_Force
Why don't we have then Mavericks, Shrikes and BLUs?
quote:
In 2013 President Obama offered the AGM-88 to Israel for the first time.
Source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AGM-88_HARM
Why don't we have Harms?
Isn't it a bit strange that Israel would have to defend against enemy SAMs with CBUs, LGBs and iron bombs?  |
| Sharpe |
Posted - 10 Mar 2014 : 19:22:43
quote:
Originally posted by Blade
Afaik, update the software of the plane so the plane understands the new 'hardware' that's screwed onto it and done. Plug and play and no reboot needed. :)
Ah mate - would that it were true, it would make most defence air projects half the cost!
;) Although I don't know too much about the Israeli F16 and what import/export conditions were imposed one would assume it was quicker/easier than normal and you could possibly get away with the usual T&E in a time of war (as I have just seen Tiag has aluded to).
-Sharpe |
| Blade |
Posted - 10 Mar 2014 : 18:44:39
Afaik, update the software of the plane so the plane understands the new 'hardware' that's screwed onto it and done. Plug and play and no reboot needed. :) |
| tiag |
Posted - 10 Mar 2014 : 18:11:23
Sorry, but no mission this week due to RL commitments. I think I will save the missions for Sundays. If we fly it on Wednesdays I have too few RL time to edit the mission+briefing until Friday evening/Saturday morning, when I have to send everything to Griffin. So, Sharpe, don´t worry about it. :-)
Regarding your question: That is indeed a very good one. But I would say that in war, those peace time burocracy is often overlooked. ;-) Take as an example the case of the Sidewinders and the Mirage IIIs in the IDF in the book of Spector (http://www.amazon.com/Loud-Clear-Memoir-Israeli-Fighter/dp/B005UVV76K). It took some hours to adapt it, test it and approve it. ;-)
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| Sharpe |
Posted - 10 Mar 2014 : 12:52:43
I would be interested to know how quickly the Israeli forces can integrate a weapon not previously set up for their aircraft (like AGM88) especially as weapons integration programmes are notoriously slow and costly.
An anal point I know, sorry Tiag ;)
-Sharpe
PS: If more missions are going to be flown is there any chance of varying the dates as Wednesdays are always a no go for me :(
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| Blade |
Posted - 10 Mar 2014 : 12:21:53
Were you planning a Wednesday mission this week? |
| Blade |
Posted - 01 Mar 2014 : 20:17:09
Yeah, use the throttle sparingly as well :P |
| Dmans1 |
Posted - 01 Mar 2014 : 17:15:45
Sa10, no HARMs? This should be interesting... :) |
| tiag |
Posted - 28 Feb 2014 : 15:14:57
Diplomatic talks between syrian and israeli officials failed this morning after almost 10 hours behind closed hours. American DOD officially stated this is major defeat for democracy and freedom in the region, and the USA will continue assisting its allies.
Secretary of State John Kerry, when asked whether PGMs like anti-radiation missiles and anti-tank missiles will be delivered to IDF, said that all possibilies are open if Russia continues supplying Syria with air defence systems and 4th generation jets. Associated Press reported recently that Russia will be delivering at least one battalion of the S-300P system to the syrian army. Arrival of the modern air defence system is expected to take place in the next days in the russian naval base of Tartus, Syria.
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| Griffin |
Posted - 23 Feb 2014 : 22:11:58
Should be fun.
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| Blade |
Posted - 23 Feb 2014 : 22:05:58
Sounds interesting :) |
