| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| Griffin |
Posted - 04 Jan 2015 : 21:24:50
Flight leads in this Sunday's official campaign mission, "Korean Campaign 14" are requested to post a debrief of their flights actions, including any lessons learned or that should be learned by others.
Please put the following information at the top of your post:
Flight Role: (SEAD, ESCORT, STRIKE, Etc..)
Callsign11: "Pilot's name" AA=X AG=X RTB,MIA/KIA,EJT
Callsign12: "Pilot's name" AA=X AG=X RTB,MIA/KIA,EJT
Callsign13: "Pilot's name" AA=X AG=X RTB,MIA/KIA,EJT
Callsign14: "Pilot's name" AA=X AG=X RTB,MIA/KIA,EJT
Mission Outcome: MS,PS,MF
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| 6 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| Ironman |
Posted - 05 Jan 2015 : 19:33:41
And here is me thinking we were supposed to kill the enemy :0)
We came, we saw, we kicked ass ! and we are still bold and old ... well old anyway !!!!
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| Sharpe |
Posted - 05 Jan 2015 : 16:56:32
Ironman, in response to (parts) of your post I would (as TO) point out the following:
Blue flights stores selection was made with the intent of achieving the most number of kills possible and not nessesarily the best tactics. CCRP mode is not reliable (which is why it is not used by the military in real life - but that is exasperated by issues that do not bother us in sim), however, with heavy cross winds CCRP release of CBU's is still unwise, thus a low altitude attack with CCIP was inevitable, but this meant you would need to do this whilst flying over an area saturated with AAA, enemy units SAM7's and SAM13's.
Tactically, the decision to go for the most kills and risk the aircraft is exactly that - a decision. In this instance 2 aircraft were rendered combat inefective (thankfully not after the first pass, but towards the end), thankfully there were no SAM launches (with that much stuff down there I am frankly shocked nothing launched) but as you guys flew your attacks solo and not as pairs riding in shotgun formation to spot for launches it is just as well neither a SAM7 or SAM13 shot at you as the first you would have known about it was when it hit you as the F16 has no MWS.
Also, to correct a slight mistake, the Pk of AAA goes up dramatically the lower down you go. While aggressive tactics (like dive bombing) can (if done correctly with off sets, jinking and aggressive pull outs) reduce the effectivness of AAA even at low altitude, when there is a lot of AAA and radar guided AAA in a small area history tells us aircraft are still more vulnerable than at altitude (speak to the RAF after GW1). The dive attack is a good tactic if there are no other options but if you dive straight down and dont jink/offset this is only a 2d and not 3d maneuvre and allows a funnel shot for the AAA which gives them increased odds of hitting an aircraft.
Having flown straight and level between A20-25 Snake flight encountered AAA once, and only briefly and sustained no damage or losses. It comes down to how we fly as a VFS and our attitudes, do we grab the most kills we can or do we fly tactically and accept lower kill rates. Ultimately you guys did well and got lots of kills and were lucky to only have moderate damage to 2 out of 3 aircraft that at least allowed for a landing at an alternate. But what would have happened if this was the middle east map with much longer ingress and fewer (if any) local alternate - would blue flight still have gone for the clusters?
As they say, "there are old pilots and there are bold pilots, but there are no old bold pilots".
All that aside, love the kill stacks and its always good to practice the harder delivery methods - especially in a target area with lots of reds shooting at you :)
-Sharpe
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| Sharpe |
Posted - 05 Jan 2015 : 16:36:53
Flight Role: INTERDICTION
Snake11: "Sharpe" AA=0 AG=1RTB
Snake12: "Crowbar" AA=0 AG=1 RTB
Snake13: "Jack" AA=0 AG=2 RTB
Mission Outcome: Success
Flight in was uneventful but Jack CTD'd as we pushed the target IP. The decision was made to allow Jack to reconnect. In the mean time 1 and 2 engaged targets with mavricks. Multiple passes were required due to issues with targeting. However, hits were noted (but not recorded in the BMS debrief). Jack managed to reconnect and also managed to clear all but 1 mav in 2 or 3 passes.
Flight home was uneventful other than the minor issue of the airbase not being where we left it. A real 'TopGun' moment "any of you boys seen an airbase around here....."
-Sharpe
I think given the issues encountered by several pilots during this mission it might be wise to revise the ruling on reconnecting during a mission.
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| Ironman |
Posted - 05 Jan 2015 : 11:29:43
Gents,
In order to quell the discord regarding the Blue flight tactics, and success, last evening I should for the avoidance of doubt point out the following:-
1. After re-coning the targets, HART sites, it seemed obvious that such tightly packed units called for a cluster munitions attack.
2. It soon became obvious that a CCRP attack was the preferred option.
3. The hard deck was called in response to the HQ battalions SA13’ NOT the SA7’s at the HART sites (max engagement alt 7k) which are easily avoided even if fired upon.
4. There was AAA in the area but to significantly reduce your chances of being hit you need to be above 25k.
5. We attacked initially at 20k using CCRP – this is inherently dangerous as you are flying straight and level – easy AAA targets. When the clusters would not come off the rails we switched to CCIP and “dive bombed” the targets – this is inherently safer as both your altitude is constantly changing and you speed is increasing.
6. The fact that we selected the correct munitions and delivered them effectively on a closely grouped unit is testimony to good recon, weapons selection and airmanship, if the proximity settings for the HART sites are not realistic – well they were equally unrealistic for all the flights as we were all tasked with destroying HART sites.
7. Yes two of our planes were clipped, but not destroyed, by AAA but that could have happened at any altitude and was not, in my opinion, a function of the chosen method of weapons delivery.
8. NO SAM’s were fired at our flight and thus the hard deck was not a factor.
9. Once we had cleared the HART sites we proceeded to give the movers a good pounding too, using CCIP.
10. No Blue pilots were harmed in the making of this mission ;0)
I should like to congratulate Utopic for his leadership and success in this mission, Zipgun and I didn’t do a bad job either.
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| utopic |
Posted - 04 Jan 2015 : 22:06:35
Flight Role: INTERDICTION
Viper11: Utopic AA=0 AG=35 RTB
Viper12: Zipgun AA=0 AG=14 RTB
Viper13: Ironman AA=0 AG=16 RTB
Mission Outcome: MS
Long way to get to the target. Got there, #1 did 4 runs, and on the way out got clipped by flak. #2 also did the same, and on his way out, was also clipped by flak. Ironman was Winchester at this time.
Due to FLCS fault, first element decided to land at the closest available friendly airfield. Ironman was on the way home when he CTDed and since he was RTB, he did not rejoin. |
| Veiland |
Posted - 04 Jan 2015 : 22:03:11
Flight Role: STRIKE
Lobo11: "Veiland" AA=0 AG=13 RTB
Lobo12: "Elmo" AA=0 AG=25 RTB
Lobo13: "Griffin" AA=0 AG=7 RTB
Lobo14: "Floyd" AA=0 AG=5 RTB
Mission Outcome: MS
We set out with a mixed loadout. Number 1 had 2xGGBU-10C/B & 2x370 tanks and was tasked to attack the 2 major stacks in both assigned Hart sites. Rest of flight was tasked with attacking targets in the general area of operation. Number 2&3 had 6xMavericks, 4xCBU 87 CEM's & Centertank. Number 4 had 8 Mavericks & Centertank.
Upon takeoff we climbed to angels 25 and I tried to avoid flying at buster since we had such dissimilar loadout.
I (Number 1) managed to hit first target just fine, but second GBU overshot for some reason. Target steerpoint coordinates for second target was therefor passed to 2 who killed the stack with CBU's.
While first element was attacking the hart sites, 2nd element provided aircover, then switched to Air to Ground while 1st element provided aircover. Since nothing was happening in the skies, number 2 was cleared in hot to get rid of his remaining weapons.
A A-Low Floor of 15.000ft was prebriefed, but it seemded those with CBU's had problems staying above 15.000ft (Training topic Sharpe?)
After everyone had expended their weapons, RTB was called. Number 2 had burned a lot of fuel (was down to 2500ish) so we climbed to angels 33 for a uneventful cruise home.
Unfortunately there were bandwitdh problems so Kunsan airbase wasn't loaded, so Floyd called everyone to end mission in the air.
Lessson learned: Unit Stacks blow up nicely with both GBU and CBU. Considering the different loadouts and fuel quantity, I should have paid more attention to fuel consumption and Joker/Bingo should have been briefed. Number 2's fuel state came as a bit of a surprice.
Maybe we should have a point correcting CPL rule when attacking Hart sites? (or whenever we know in advance there will be huge unit stacks) The AG numbers tonight were a bit silly ... |
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