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| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| Griffin |
Posted - 10 Mar 2013 : 19:21:34
Flight leads in this Sunday's mission, "Remember my Name" are requested to post a debrief of their flights actions, including any lessons learned or that should be learned by others.
Please put the following information at the top of your post:
Flight Role: (SEAD, ESCORT, STRIKE, Etc..)
Callsign11: "Pilot's name" AA=X AG=X RTB,MIA/KIA,EJT
Callsign12: "Pilot's name" AA=X AG=X RTB,MIA/KIA,EJT
Callsign13: "Pilot's name" AA=X AG=X RTB,MIA/KIA,EJT
Callsign14: "Pilot's name" AA=X AG=X RTB,MIA/KIA,EJT
Mission Outcome: MS,PS,MF
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| 7 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| Vosene |
Posted - 14 Mar 2013 : 14:21:40
Basic Guide for non-computed pop up attacks
Although the pop-up attacks demonstrated are not the most precise, the following video offers good hints on how to set up a non-computed pop up attack and at the end of the video are some examples of real attacks:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q1dPd1KGnww
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| Elmo |
Posted - 14 Mar 2013 : 13:54:11
I enjoy the low level flying in the dark as it is quite a challenge, especially being the second element trying to saddle with the first as they are pretty much out of view by the time you take off.
One thing that we should try and do better as a package is ensure we are taking off at our assigned times and either flying to caret or at pre-briefed speeds as again when you are not supposed to have data link you have no idea where anybody else is and hopefully the TE creator has created each flight to maintain appropriate separation and time on target.
I think although in the mission we were supposed to have radio silence that does not mean from the moment you take off, you still have an area around the airbase to co-ordinate the flights before going radio silent, especially to ensure everyone has taken off on time, you can then call at steerpoint 2 for example that you are pushing 3 and then you go silent so each flight knows where you are and if there are any problems the mission commander can factor in a delay.
One thing I have found is that when I create a TE it is almost impossible to achieve a mission success when flying single player with the AI as I am writing it for having human pilots who know how to fly the aircraft properly and take directions. With this in mind I have a certain idea of how I think each of the flights should operate to achieve the mission success. I don't normally write into the briefing how I think this should be achieved as we normally let the flight leads decide how they are going to achieve this on the night but that can sometimes end up in some disjointed planning.
Although writing the briefings can be a bit of a drag after you have spent so long creating the TE it could be better if the TE writer gave more direction in how they think the mission should be flown, as generally when writing the TE you are trying to create a flight where people have to do something different, using different weapons from different altitudes with different delivery methods to put people out of their comfort zone and create a challenge.
Anyway those are just my thoughts, should probably get writing my next TE and put into practice my ideas.
Elmo |
| utopic |
Posted - 13 Mar 2013 : 16:32:04
I thought this was a pretty straight forward mission, from the author's POV.
I wanted flights to take off one after the other and fly pretty close to each other on ingress. The SEAD would have engaged the 3 mandatory targets (SAMs). That should have left harms to take care of any other radar threats.
CAS should then take out the rest of the HQ batallion, with MAVs, from a safe distance, away from AA and small arms fire. The Strelas the HQ had 6 of, have a range of ~9km while the AGM65 has a range of ~22km so there should have been no issue there.
The Strike package should have had an easy job putting a few bombs into the TV Station building.
The escort, after the attack begun, would have to pop up to angels 25 or higher and monitor the skies.
That was the theory. In practice it was different:
The escort either went too fast (or the other flights lagged behind) and ended up circling for what felt like a long time. Personally, I don't complain, as low level flight with NVGs is fun. I'm curious what the consensus is about low level flying - I felt that everybody I saw flew pretty high, lots of times, above 100 feet. It's true that the mountains were probably masking us, but still.
Also, as it's been noted, we had the datalink pop up at some time*, and I did notice a friendly radar on the RWR so radar wasn't off. I specifically wrote in the briefing and put a picture of the RF switch that shuts down RF emissions. Did anyone use it? :)
I remember in the debrief being mentioned that the 3 SAMs at the target weren't active. With the targeted radars locked up, one could have entered the SAM's range (and/or gain altitude) and make it go active, or even for a few seconds before the missile hit, for better odds. That's just a thought because I do know that sometimes shots miss, even when conditions are perfect. I don't remember though, were the other harms fired? At what?
For engaging the HQ battalion, it made sense to make it station close to the TV Station - after all it transported the general there, didn't it? It would have been nice to take it out or at least cripple it before the attack, as it was the only thing defending the building. I could have written where it was positioned in the briefing, although it would have been too easy :)
Crowebar, why did you try a CCRP attack? I don't think high drag bombs are accurate in higher altitude attacks. Sabre, since you launched but didn't get any explosions, did you have your arming delay set right? Did anyone start any CM program before the attack?
This is a popup attack, the real thing, so I'm not sure it fits, but it's fun to watch: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TKLqK4rELBM
The pilot uses CCRP for range to target approach, then switches to CCIP. I am surprised of how fast he was.
These are the Dutch training, but it's also a popup attack: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SUQNrY0nqL4
For me, personally, the mission was a bit boring (Air-to-Air aspect, I mean), because everyone made good calls and shot down all enemies. I had a Su25 locked at some point, but lead had already engaged it and took it out.
*when on the taxiway and setting up datalink, I accidentaly turned it on, just from cycling through the modes, but after changing again, from CONT to DMD it stopped.
Crowebar, thanks for all the details, they help!
Any other thoughts? |
| Crowebar |
Posted - 12 Mar 2013 : 21:23:21
Flight Role:STRIKE
Cowboy11: "Crowebar" AA=0 AG=0 KIA
Cowboy12: "Sabre" AA=0 AG=0 EJT
Cowboy13: "Griffin" AA=1 AG=1 RTB
Cowboy14: "Vaughan" AA=0 AG=0 RTB
Mission Outcome:PS
Once airborne we remained low level and radio/radar silent even though approaching steerpoint 3 we were being spiked by SA11 and Mig-23s and Mig-21s. By this time Falcon was also engaging ground threats. Just past steerpoint 3 we could see Ground units being engaged in the proximity of target area and called Fury for confirmation that he was engaging ground targets. On receiving confirmation we went music on and broke radio silence.
Progressed to a the valley in the vicinity of steerpoint 4 and flew circles within this valley while awaiting the call from Fury to move forward to target area. While waiting a single Mig-21 dropped into the valley amongs us. This caused some fun as it was still dark, (furball in a dark valley at 500ft with 4XF16's and 1 X Mig-21) but was engaged by both Vaughan and Griffin in 2nd element. Vaughan damaged it with guns and Griffin got the kill with a slammer.
Once cleared to proceed by Fury, 1st element of Myself and Sabre headed off to the primary target area. Sabre called 'hot' first, and bombs gone, with me a few seconds behind but I seen no explosions. I was setup with Stpt 5 as the target steerpoint and made a CCRP run in. But the target designation box and bomb fall line was over empty ground within the city, so I came off dry and went around for a 2nd approach using CCIP. Couldn't see the TV station and exploded when hit from intense ground fire. Once off target Sabre was hit by an SA-2 and ejected.
The 2nd element left their holding position in the valley to attack the TV station. Coming under the same hail of fire as the first element, Vaughan got hit, but was able to limp back to base in a damaged aircraft. Griffin made a successful attack and destroyed the TV station, before returning to base.
Challis was able to report that the Fury flight target HQ Battalion had moved into the city and was spread around the TV station - hence the heavy ground fire.
A very enjoyable mission. Not sure how Fury would differentiate between an Air Defence battalion and the HQ battalion in close location? Also as flight lead I briefed that the whole flight should drop into a valley and fly a cartwheel pattern holding position. It might have been an idea to seperate the two elements by altitude as well during briefing.
Thanks Utopic.
FLIGHT EVENTS
Event Crowebar joined as Cowboy11 at 05:33:47
Event Vaughan joined as Cowboy14 at 05:33:47
Event Griffin joined as Cowboy13 at 05:33:48
Event Sabre joined as Cowboy12 at 05:33:49
Event AA-2C launched at Vaughan 05:57:12
Event DPRK MiG-21 MF/PFM downed by Griffin at 05:59:32
Event SA13 launched at Sabre 06:00:38
Event HN5A launched at Sabre 06:00:42
Event 23mm AAA (RG) launched at Sabre 06:00:43
Event 23mm AAA (RG) launched at Sabre 06:00:43
Event 23mm AAA (RG) launched at Sabre 06:00:47
Event 23mm AAA (RG) launched at Sabre 06:00:47
Event 23mm AAA (RG) launched at Crowebar 06:00:57
Event 23mm AAA (RG) launched at Crowebar 06:00:57
Event 23mm AAA (RG) launched at Crowebar 06:00:57
Event 23mm AAA (RG) launched at Crowebar 06:00:57
Event 23mm AAA (RG) launched at Crowebar 06:00:59
Event 23mm AAA (RG) launched at Crowebar 06:00:59
Event HN5A launched at Crowebar 06:01:07
Event SA13 launched at Crowebar 06:01:30
Event HN5A launched at Crowebar 06:01:31
Event 23mm AAA (RG) launched at Crowebar 06:01:45
Event 23mm AAA (RG) launched at Crowebar 06:01:46
Event 23mm AAA (RG) launched at Crowebar 06:01:46
Event 23mm AAA (RG) launched at Crowebar 06:01:46
Event Crowebar downed by DPRK ZSU23-4 at 06:01:46
Event SA2 launched at Sabre 06:04:21
Event SA2 launched at Sabre 06:04:34
Event SA13 launched at Vaughan 06:05:00
Event 23mm AAA (RG) launched at Vaughan 06:05:00
Event 23mm AAA (RG) launched at Vaughan 06:05:00
Event 23mm AAA (RG) launched at Vaughan 06:05:01
Event 23mm AAA (RG) launched at Vaughan 06:05:01
Event 23mm AAA (RG) launched at Vaughan 06:05:01
Event 23mm AAA (RG) launched at Vaughan 06:05:01
Event 23mm AAA (RG) launched at Vaughan 06:05:02
Event 23mm AAA (RG) launched at Vaughan 06:05:03
Event Sabre ejected at 06:05:03
Event HN5A launched at Vaughan 06:05:03
Event DPRK TV Station destroyed by Griffin at 06:05:06
Event Griffin landed at 06:27:01
Event Vaughan landed at 06:29:02
Event Vaughan exited from Cowboy14 at 06:37:32
Event Griffin exited from Cowboy13 at 06:37:49
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PILOT SLOT 2:
Human Player: 2Lt. 185 Sabre
Callsign: Sabre
Pilot status - MIA
Aircraft status - DESTROYED
AA Kills 0
AG Kills 0
AS Kills 0
AN Kills 0
Shoot At 230
Other Player Kills 0
WEAPON DATA
LOADOUT 0: 20mm M61
Starting Load 510
Fired 0
Missed 0
Hit 0
LOADOUT 1: AIM-120B
Starting Load 2
Fired 0
Missed 0
Hit 0
LOADOUT 2: AIM-120C
Starting Load 2
Fired 0
Missed 0
Hit 0
LOADOUT 3: Mk-82 SE
Starting Load 6
Fired 1
Missed 1
Hit 0
Event Mk-82 SE released at 06:00:41@72miss
LOADOUT 4: 370 Gal Tank
Starting Load 2
Fired 0
Missed 0
Hit 0
LOADOUT 5: ALQ-184
Starting Load 1
Fired 0
Missed 0
Hit 0
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PILOT SLOT 4:
Human Player: Lt. Vaughan
Callsign: Vaughan
Pilot status - OK
Aircraft status - DAMAGED
AA Kills 0
AG Kills 0
AS Kills 0
AN Kills 0
Shoot At 105
Other Player Kills 0
WEAPON DATA
LOADOUT 0: 20mm M61
Starting Load 510
Fired 1
Missed 0
Hit 1
Event 20mm M61 fired at 05:59:12@72hit MiG-21 MF/PFM - damaged
LOADOUT 1: AIM-120B
Starting Load 2
Fired 0
Missed 0
Hit 0
LOADOUT 2: AIM-120C
Starting Load 2
Fired 0
Missed 0
Hit 0
LOADOUT 3: Mk-82 SE
Starting Load 6
Fired 0
Missed 0
Hit 0
LOADOUT 4: 370 Gal Tank
Starting Load 2
Fired 0
Missed 0
Hit 0
LOADOUT 5: ALQ-184
Starting Load 1
Fired 0
Missed 0
Hit 0
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PILOT SLOT 3:
Human Player: LtC. Griffin
Callsign: Griffin
Pilot status - OK
Aircraft status - OK
AA Kills 1
AG Kills 0
AS Kills 1
AN Kills 0
Shoot At 54
Other Player Kills 0
WEAPON DATA
LOADOUT 0: 20mm M61
Starting Load 510
Fired 0
Missed 0
Hit 0
LOADOUT 1: AIM-120B
Starting Load 2
Fired 0
Missed 0
Hit 0
LOADOUT 2: AIM-120C
Starting Load 2
Fired 2
Missed 1
Hit 1
Event AIM-120C released at 05:57:55@72miss
Event AIM-120C released at 05:59:23@72hit MiG-21 MF/PFM - destroyed
LOADOUT 3: Mk-82 SE
Starting Load 6
Fired 6
Missed 2
Hit 4
Event Mk-82 SE released at 06:04:59@72hit TV Station - damaged
Event Mk-82 SE released at 06:04:59@72hit TV Station - damaged
Event Mk-82 SE released at 06:04:59@72hit TV Station - damaged
Event Mk-82 SE released at 06:04:59@72hit TV Station - damaged
Event Mk-82 SE released at 06:05:00@72miss
Event Mk-82 SE released at 06:05:00@72miss
LOADOUT 4: 370 Gal Tank
Starting Load 2
Fired 0
Missed 0
Hit 0
LOADOUT 5: ALQ-184
Starting Load 1
Fired 0
Missed 0
Hit 0
-------------
PILOT SLOT 1:
Human Player: 2Lt. Crowebar
Callsign: Crowebar
Pilot status - KIA
Aircraft status - DESTROYED
AA Kills 0
AG Kills 0
AS Kills 0
AN Kills 0
Shoot At 118
Other Player Kills 0
WEAPON DATA
LOADOUT 0: 20mm M61
Starting Load 510
Fired 0
Missed 0
Hit 0
LOADOUT 1: AIM-120B
Starting Load 2
Fired 0
Missed 0
Hit 0
LOADOUT 2: AIM-120C
Starting Load 2
Fired 0
Missed 0
Hit 0
LOADOUT 3: Mk-82 SE
Starting Load 6
Fired 0
Missed 0
Hit 0
LOADOUT 4: 370 Gal Tank
Starting Load 2
Fired 0
Missed 0
Hit 0
LOADOUT 5: ALQ-184
Starting Load 1
Fired 0
Missed 0
Hit 0
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| Floyd |
Posted - 11 Mar 2013 : 19:12:19
Flight Role: SEAD
Falcon11: "Floyd" AA=2 AG=1 RTB
Falcon12: "Doof" AA=3 AG=4 RTB
Falcon13: "Elmo" AA=3 AG=0 RTB
Falcon14: "Novac" AA=1 AG=0 RTB
The first engagement of the two eastern SA-3 went as briefed,
but the missiles of the second element missed and #2 was
able to take out the SA-3 over the target area.
The next 20 minutes were very busy - circling east to the SAM
area and an active SA-11, the flight became sandwiched and had
to defend against 5 different groups. |
| Dmans1 |
Posted - 10 Mar 2013 : 22:58:08
Flight Role: ESCORT
Lobo11: "Dmans1" AA=0 AG=0 RTB 3 hits
Lobo12: "Utopic" AA=0 AG=0 RTB
Lobo13: "Oly" AA=0 AG=0 RTB
Lobo14: "Blade" AA=0 AG=0 RTB
Mission Outcome:PS
Mission Plan: Ingress low, radio silent, loiter at SP3, wait for SEAD signal of Eastern SAM's being down, climb up A25 CAP until Strike and CAS reported out.
Excecution-Shots Made:
Flew as briefed until SEAD reported SAMS out.
Targeted Mig23's,Su27's, when reported, SEAD happened to be closer and dealt them.
Engaged and downed 3ship Mig25's on Egress.
Nice mission, with some execution glitches. Radio Silence was not respected on ingress, i would have liked to hear more engagment callouts from the other flights.
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| Homer |
Posted - 10 Mar 2013 : 22:34:39
Flight Role: (PPCAS)
Callsign11: "Homer" AA=0 AG=6 RTB
Callsign12: "Reds" AA=0 AG=4 RTB
Callsign13: "Mango" AA=X AG=X RTB (pending ACMI review)
Callsign14: "Jack" AA=0 AG=0 RTB
Mission Outcome: MF
We seemed to have executed the assigned mission well, with good co-operation within the flight. Unfortunately, flight lead called out the wrong target and succeeded in ripping an SA-3 site a new one. While this was going on, our target was tearing Strike flight a new one too. Lesson is a simple one - correct target identification a must. Spectacular own goal tonight. |
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