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| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| Vosene |
Posted - 10 Feb 2013 : 22:04:49
Flight leads in this Sunday's mission, "Smoke on the Water" are requested to post a debrief of their flights actions, including any lessons learned or that should be learned by others.
Please put the following information at the top of your post:
Flight Role: (SEAD, ESCORT, STRIKE, Etc..)
Callsign11: "Pilot's name" AA=X AG=X RTB,MIA/KIA,EJT
Callsign12: "Pilot's name" AA=X AG=X RTB,MIA/KIA,EJT
Callsign13: "Pilot's name" AA=X AG=X RTB,MIA/KIA,EJT
Callsign14: "Pilot's name" AA=X AG=X RTB,MIA/KIA,EJT
Mission Outcome: MS,PS,MF
Posts by Tuesday evening please.
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| 13 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| utopic |
Posted - 12 Mar 2013 : 20:43:29
Thanks Vosene, anyone else? :) |
| Vosene |
Posted - 12 Mar 2013 : 20:14:23
Utopic,
Thank you for taking the time to write TEs for the Sqn, the efforts of everyone who does are much appreciated. On a personal level I really enjoyed your challenging TE.
I also appreciate you taking the time to share your thoughts about your approach to TE writing and to your TE and inviting comments on both. I'd encourage everyone to contribute to the discussion.
I'd offer the following tips to yourself and all potential TE writers:
1. Offering something different is good but don't get too wrapped up in trying to find an "Angle". A simple mission, well written and balanced can be just as much fun.
2. Balancing missions is probably the hardest part of writing any TE (other than the brief!). What works offline often plays out totally differently online. As people get more experienced in TE writing, balancing becomes easier but there are some useful tips in the TE writing SOP (currently being updated for BMS).
3. Using the Order of Battle isn't cheating. While these units can and indeed should sometimes be hidden to simulate the "fog of war", in reality combat pilots would almost always have a very good idea of what type of enemy they will face, where they will be coming from and what their capabilities are. In fact they would be much more knowledgable about their enemy than we are. Not surprising when their life could well depend on that knowledge.
4. Try to keep TEs to a maximum length of 1.5 hours. By the time we finish briefing and get in the pit it is usually approaching 2030UK and a 1.5 hour TE plus 15 minute debrief takes us to around 2215. This is 0015 for those members 2 hours ahead of the UK time zone.
5. Don't underestimate the importance many of our members attach to making sure the flight gets home in one piece. Having fun is important for everyone but there is a reason we choose to fly BMS together and not World of Warplanes on a Sunday evening and that is the level of simulation offered.
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| utopic |
Posted - 12 Mar 2013 : 16:20:01
Homer, as you put it, it's nice to see someone else shares your philosophy. And thanks for the encouragement.
Elmo, cheers for that doc. I'll see how that goes.
This^ being said, I'd still apreciate any feedback for the TE, if you have any. :) |
| Elmo |
Posted - 12 Mar 2013 : 11:41:04
I have the pdf, it was written for Allied Force so not sure if they all still work for BMS but have copied them below.
Page 1 of 5
LOWLAND TIGER MEET 2009
“Advanced Mission Editor”
by Nick Taylor
Page 2 of 5
INTRODUCTION
When I asked the guys (Odin, Ice and BigBrother) about one year ago, if I could join the LLTM team,
because I had some new ideas about mission design in my head, the reaction was really positive.
In July 2008 I started creating the missions for LLTM 2009 to be held in April 2009. But before I designed
the first one, I examined the official mission editor carefully to figure out some functions which were never
used before.
Here is the result of one year designing, flying and testing, which I want to share with you. Although I only
used “Falcon 4.0 Allied Force”, I think most of the functions should also work with “Open Falcon” and
“FreeFalcon”.
LOWLAND TIGER MEET 2009
Nick Taylor
Page 3 of 5
TAKE-OFF FUEL STATE
I am planning missions for years now, but always had the problem that
pilots did not had to air refuel on most of the missions. They just cruise
high and slow to save fuel or chose to land at an alternate airfield, instead
of needing to do a midair refuelling on the way to their target.
I found a way to force pilots to do a midair refuel. And it works excellent
and stable in a multiplayer environment. Here's how:
1.) Start the Mission Editor (ME)
2.) Create the F-16 flight
3.) Advance takeoff time, so that the flight is airborne when entering 3D
4.) Save and exit the TE
5.) Start the TE and take flight lead position
6.) Hit FLY to enter the 3D world
7.) Use fuel dump (ALT + D) to lower fuel to e.g. 2.200 pounds
8.) Exit mission to debriefing screen
9.) Go back to mission schedule
10.) Save the TE
11.) Exit back to main menu
12.) Start the saved TE in the mission editor
13.) Correct takeoff time to your required setting, do not change mission time
14.) Create your scenario
15.) Save your scenario
16.) Start the mission (Ramp or Taxi) and the fuel state will be 2.200 at take off
HIDDEN FLIGHTS
I never liked the fact, that pilots could see all enemy squadrons in the
Order of Battle (OoB) page. Due to this Odin and BigBrother added all kind
of extra squadrons on various airbases. Thus the participants could not
foresee what to expect as the opposing forces.
Described below is a way to hide enemy aircraft from being presented in
the OoB page:
1.) Start the Mission Editor (ME)
2.) Create your scenario (Add all flights and ground troops)
3.) Save your scenario
4.) Exit and start ME again
5.) Open your scenario
6.) Add flights that you want hidden, but each of them at an airfield you are not using for active/visible
units!
7.) Activate on the map the “show squadron” option, so you can see all the squadrons
8.) Delete the squadrons of the flights you want hidden
9.) Save your finished scenario
Note: It is required that you do not place active/visible and hidden squadrons at the same airbase. You will
get a Crash To Desktop (CTD) when doing so.
Page 4 of 5
AIRCRAFT AS GROUND TARGETS
AI flights appear 9 minutes before takeoff, taxi to their hold short position
and takeoff immediately.
How to force the AI to do a delayed takeoff, thus making them juicy
targets for a longer period. Read along:
1.) Start ME
2.) Add the flight which should have a delayed takeoff
3.) Unlock Time Over Steerpoint (TOS) for all waypoints of this flight
4.) Set and lock TOS for waypoint 1 (Takeoff)
5.) Add another steerpoint between takeoff 1 and pushpoint 2
6.) Set “Action” to “Takeoff” for this new waypoint 2
7.) Set TOS for this second takeoff waypoint 5 minutes after the first takeoff waypoint
8.) Lock TOS for waypoint 2 (Second Takeoff)
9.) Place this waypoint directly over the same airbase as waypoint 1
10.) Repeat action 5 to 9 as often as needed to delay the takeoff
11.) Save the TE
12.) Create your scenario
13.) Save your scenario
Note: The new takeoff waypoints will always be displayed in red colour.
STEERPOINTS FOR NAVAL FORCES
Unfortunately you cannot set waypoints for NAVAL units. Ships will always
follow a north-south route and turn around as soon as they reach a coast
or an end of the map.
Now I found a way, how to set at least one waypoint for each naval unit.
1.) Start ME
2.) Add all flights and ground troops
3.) Save the TE
4.) Add the naval forces at the place you want them to go
5.) Save the TE
6.) Exit back to main menu
7.) Start the TE and save it again as soon as you are in the mission schedule
8.) Exit back to main menu
9.) Start the saved TE in the mission editor
10.) Drag and drop the naval forces (not their waypoint) to the place you want them to begin the mission
11.) Save the TE
Note: This does not work for aircraft carriers.
Page 5 of 5
AIR MOBILE WITHIN PLAYER BUBBLE
In Falcon 4.0 Allied Force the AIR MOBILE units do not pick up or drop the
ground units when the flight is in the human player bubble. This really
nice function could only be used in the 2D world - until now.
I figured out, how to setup an AIR MOBILE unit which works when inside
the player bubble. Here's the tutorial:
1.) Start ME
2.) Create and save your scenario
3.) Add the ground unit you want to be picked up by the AIR MOBILE unit
4.) Place the cursor above this unit and choose “Add flight”
5.) Select “C-130H Hercules” or “An-72 Coaler” as aircraft
6.) Select “Air Mobile” as role
7.) Add new steerpoints but do not move waypoint 2/pick up
8.) Save your scenario
9.) Exit back to main menu
10.) Start ME again
11.) Open the scenario but do not make any changes
12.) Open the air tasking order (ATO)
13.) Select the “Air Mobile” flight and change the role to “Air Lift” at the ATO screen
14.) Save your scenario
Note: Only the “C-130H Hercules” and “An-72 Coaler” have both options “Air Lift” and “Air Mobile”.
SUPPORT
To share your thoughts on issue within this document, please feel free to do so. Send an E-mail to the
following address: nick@lowlandtigermeet.com
Or you join the LLTM2009 forum thread on this subject:
http://www.falcon5.nl/forum/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?f=137&t=9401
With kind regards,
LLTM2009 Falcon 4.0 Allied Force competition leader
Nick Taylor |
| Homer |
Posted - 12 Mar 2013 : 09:13:20
Utopic - thank you for taking the time to explain your train of thought, it's encouraging to know that I am not alone in thinking similar to you. This TE in particular I did very much enjoy cos as you say, it demanded a different from the norm approach and made me think about how I might achieve success.
There is a good document available out there somewhere full of tricks and tips about how to make hidden flights, etc. As an example, after you have planned an intercept flight (for example), delete the squadron from the airbase and no-one will ever know to expect a potential flight out of there until it happens. I wish I still had the doc to send you but I don't, maybe someone does?
Above all though, and I say this with the greatest of respect to all squadron members, NEVER feel the need to justify/defend your TEs, cos the very fact you take the time out to write them for everyones enjoyment is very much appreciated. Anyone that moans about this, that, and the next thing about any TE probably doesn't deserve to fill a seat on flight night. I know from personal experience how difficult it can be to remain creative and challenging while churning out TEs, and I also know the many hours are required flying the same TE over and over again to make sure one has the balance right. Anyone can create a TE, but any TE made in 10 minutes flat won't be up to much. Basically, continue to be as creative as you possibly can, and don't forget to be devious at times too!
You have my total respect  |
| utopic |
Posted - 11 Mar 2013 : 16:50:25
*LONG POST FOLLOWS*
I'd like to make it habit [that] I ask (and hopefully recieve :) ) feedback about the TEs that I write.
I'm interested in both pros and cons, but I'd want to hear more about the cons so I can have those suggestions in mind when I write new TEs.
Also, I think it's generally a good ideea for the TE author to submit impressions about how the TE was thought out, what went ok and what didn't.
Now I don't know if you want to post these here, in the mission debrief, or to a different topic or format.
Pending your replies, I'll post here my thoughts, I think we can move the post later if need be.
Before specifics about the mission, I'll share my thoughts on my past & future TE writing:
I always try to think up scenarios that involve different tactics and approaches to a mission. If you usually fly at angels 25, I'll make you fly nap-of-the-earth. If you fly daytime, I'll give you nighttime missions. If you are used to the comfort of harms, I'll give you mavericks. You get the picture. It's no point in doing the same old thing, over and over again.
I try to include an element of surprise in the mission, where fit & possible. There might be something else in the mission than is written in the briefing. I think that looking in that "Land Sea Air Forces" thing - can't remember the name - is cheating. In the future I'll make sure I make it more difficult if not impossible for you to tell what's going on out there.
I try to write a mission that's challenging while still enjoyable, where the entire package sees some action. Personally, I'd rather fly a deep strike and get shot down by Shilkas in the first 3 minutes than a CAP where I turn in circles for 30 minutes and nothing happens(but that's just me). I don't care about scores, frags and K/D ratio. This isn't real life, I fly for fun, not because I'm paid to. Then again, everyone's idea of fun is different.
I try to think up scenarios where one has to use systems you don't normally use (ex TFR, RF silence, etc).
Now about the mission: initially, on this TE, the weather was inclement all the way back and the carrier had an escort. While the escort wasn't that much of an issue, the weather made it much more difficult, so I gave those up.
The way I flew it when testing, was fly super low and fast on ingress. MAVs to bore, when getting close to the carrier, send the AI back, visually find the carrier and launch the 2 missiles in one run. Full AB, max G, level turn at same low level, egress. It is doable, if you launch the mavs at their max launch envelope. If you get close, the ships will usually take out 2-3 planes (if the AI is still with you). And in single player the AI flies much too high. All this is without worrying about disabling the ship's radars, and with the carrier still having an escort.
If I would have flown this with humans as TASMO flight, I'd have either have I plane scout for the location of the group and strike while the rest held back (as there's no need to endager all aircraft in case you stumble into the group at close range, and because there's less room for manover in formation) or choose spread formation with plenty of separation in an attempt to comb the ocean, as finding the group was the main issue.
At some point, I really wished we could have penguin missiles, but those aren't implemented (yet?).
The moment I added enemy fighters, I could no longer get close to the group as I was engaged by mig29s and the AI did a terrible job at taking them out. However, for a human flight that should not have been an issue as there was enough space to take them down them outside of the coastline sams' engagement enevelope.
I'm surprised no one tried to land on the carrier - I did it a while ago in an online campaign mode (3 players) without any issues. I'm mentioning this as I think I remember someone saying it might not be possible in MP. To be perfectly honest, I didn't try it in an online TE.
As for human factor, for this sortie I wanted to test low level flight, and coordination/communication between the escort and the rest of the flights, and flight lead decissions on formation and (again, low level flying).
This was my first TE (ever) and a lot of hours went into it, most likely because I didn't know how to use the various tools. I'm glad to hear you liked it for the most part :) |
| Oly |
Posted - 14 Feb 2013 : 22:38:53
Flight Role: TASMO
Falcon 11 "Oly" AA 0 AG 0 KIA
Falcon 12 "Doof" AA 0 AG 0 RTB
Falcon 13 "Vosene" AA 0 AG 0 KIA
Mission outcome: MS
We took off and was trailing the first TASMO flight by about 5 miles. They went low quite soon while we remained high in case of any enemy fighter intercepts. A lot of BVR was going on over the target area so we remained in orbit to 80 miles or so to the west of target. My computer crashed and when I got reconnected was 40 miles away from the rest of my flight. Was able to rejoin before the flight was cleared in hot by awacs. We went to 100ft but was very soon after engaged by a 2-ship of enemy fighters. They was very close when we were spiked by them so I decided to stay low (possibly wrongly) and continue in to target. No 3 managed to get two missiles off at the fighters, which definitely disrupted them. A missile was already inbound on me and I was hit. Doof managed to get through and hit the carrier and a destroyer with his mavs. Vosene also got one hit on the carrier but was hit after. Doof egressed and rtb'd safely.
All in all a great mission, some difficulties finding fleet but other than that great fun |
| Doof |
Posted - 12 Feb 2013 : 19:09:35
I can send the ACMI take to anyone who wants it for the whole mission, it's compressed so it can only be viewed on TACVIEW though, otherwise it's 200mb to upload and I can't do that :D |
| Vosene |
Posted - 11 Feb 2013 : 19:57:36
A good mission and despite the losses we managed to damaged the carrier so a mission success all round.
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| Joif |
Posted - 11 Feb 2013 : 14:21:39
I can see myself developing PTSD over this mission, waking up in a cold sweat after nightmare visions of the admiral of the Kirov laughing hysterically as he simultaneously engaged all of our F-16's.
*checks into counseling*
_________________________________________________________________________________
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| Homer |
Posted - 11 Feb 2013 : 07:37:18
Sorry, no "official" debrief text available, but from memory:
Homer 0 0 KIA
Joif 1 0 EJT
Sabre 0 0 EJT
Mango 0 0 EJT
Mission Outcome:MS
Lobo flight were tasked with SEAD suppression. We flew in at low alt radar off in the hope we could sneak in under enemy radar and fighter cover, but this idea was quickly dashed when we were spiked by MiG29s. Once we were clear again we ingressed to attack steerpoint at low level again, and just after clearing hot, more MiG29 spikes meant bugging out west then south, hopefully dragging a couple of the bad guys with us. Lost Mango to a 29 at this point. Joif went AA, Sabre and I tried again. Eventually found the carrier group but it was more cos we went high enough to get spiked by it - I never did see it on radar. Once it was visible in the Mav display I was unable to get a lock from sub 100 feet. Popped up to 750 feet to try again, but only succeeded in giving them a target to aim at - which they did. Bought the farm soon after... never did get a lock on the targets.
Lessons? If tasked SEAD against a carrier group carrying only Mavericks, fake sickness and don't take off.
A tough mission but enjoyable none the less. Look forward to more from utopic. |
| Dmans1 |
Posted - 10 Feb 2013 : 23:25:37
Flight Role: ESCORT
Fury11: "Dmans1" AA=2 AG=0 EJT
Fury12: "Blade" AA=0 AG=0 EJT
Fury13: "Crowebar" AA=1 AG=0 EJT
Furyn14: "Utopic" AA=0 AG=0 EJT
Mission Outcome:MS
Plan: Establish a 240-60 CAP WSW of the last known carrier position, just outside the SAN6 tresspass.
Execution-Shots Made:
1st Engagement 2Ship Su27 @ Southern SA11:1st Element in Hot, shot by #2, dry pump by #1. 2nd element in hot, 2 shots, 1 enemy downed, 2nd enelemd downed by R77. 2nd run, shot from #1, 1 enemy downed, #2 down by R77.
Proceeded to CAP area, vectored to delouse friend flight.
2nd engagement: 2ship Su27. 1 run, 2 shots made, 2 kills.
#1 shot down some minutes later by SaN6.
Lessons Learned: Same as always. Respect the MAR. 2 Su27's took down 3 F16's. People tend to get trigger happy or fixated and forget the basic rule. Bring the aircraft back home. It's a bit frustrating seeing people doing the same mistake again and again.
As far as the Sa6N is concerned, i'be been hit a couple of times by SA10's and Patriots without getting anything on the RWR. It's a bit annoying when something like that happens, but i can't really complain. Sh@#t happens, can't always be your day.
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| Griffin |
Posted - 10 Feb 2013 : 23:16:06
Flight Role: TASMO
Cowboy11: "Griffin" AA=2 AG=0 (2 x hits on carrier) RTB
Cowboy12: "Floyd" AA=0 AG=0 RTB
Cowboy13: "Vaughan" AA=0 AG=0 KIA
Mission Outcome: MS
We took off from Seosan with 4 x 120B, 2 x AGM65G and 2 x 600 gallon tanks.
Climbed to A25 and headed on route. Descended to 100 feet using TFR. Many air engagements ahead of us but we stayed safe, orbiting at our SP4. When the areas was semi safe to enter, we turned in to search for the carrier group.
Switching to SEA mode Floyd and Vaughan spotted what turned out to be a small patrol group to the right of our flight plan which we ignored. I then found the carrier group and we started in. We lost Vaughan to an S-A-N9. Added to that Floyd was having problems getting his cursor to move in order to target the ships.
I got two Maverics off which both hit the carrier. Floyd launched his missiles but both missed.
I was launched at by the carrier but out ran it. On climbing I was directed to engage 2 x SU-27s. I successfully destroyed both.
Floyd rejoined on my wing and we returned to Seosan, complete with battle break.
A really good mission from Utopic and well flown by everyone.
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