| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| Griffin |
Posted - 03 Mar 2012 : 13:19:59
Flight leads who took part in this Sunday's mission, "The Art of Deception" are requested to post a debrief of their flights actions, including any lessons learned or that should be learned by others.
Please put the following information at the top of your post:
Flight Role: (SEAD, ESCORT, STRIKE, Etc..)
Callsign11: "Pilot's name" AA=X AG=X RTB,MIA/KIA,EJT
Callsign12: "Pilot's name" AA=X AG=X RTB,MIA/KIA,EJT
Callsign13: "Pilot's name" AA=X AG=X RTB,MIA/KIA,EJT
Callsign14: "Pilot's name" AA=X AG=X RTB,MIA/KIA,EJT
Mission Outcome: MS,PS,MF
Any LOA's if applicable.
Please ensure you have posted by the evening of Tuesday 6th March.
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| 15 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| Novac |
Posted - 07 Mar 2012 : 17:54:56
Having read Mango's post regarding the landings I gave it a go and only managed 2 T&G's out of 10. And they weren't pretty!
Like Mango it's the weight that's giving me the problem. Drop the stores on approach and the landings a lot easier.
But I'm trying to do it without the use of rudder as my pedals are spiking badly. They are like a switch at the moment, either full left or right and centre, nothing in between!
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| Joif |
Posted - 07 Mar 2012 : 16:27:22
It was a great mission, I really enjoyed skimming rocks under those conditions, its not something that you get to do in the campaign unless you want to pick AK47 rounds out of the fuselage, although I didn't find the landing too difficult (but I have spent plenty of time on the impossible landing TE) but due to it its high risk factor and difficulty similar to air to air refuelling, its something that really adds to the immersion if everyone can do it, but it focused skill which people don't have the time to practice so shouldn't be compulsory. Epic flight though Dmans!
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| mango |
Posted - 07 Mar 2012 : 13:51:28
Interesting but I am having more trouble with the ac being heavily laden than with the side wind and by the way Dmans none of the above detracts from the good TE you prepared just wanted to see if it challenged others as it does myself.  |
| Dmans1 |
Posted - 07 Mar 2012 : 11:05:03
I nailed alle the touch and go's id did when testing the TE, and frankly i didn't think that would be such a great issue.
Crosswind approach is pretty simple and straightforward, once you get the hand of it.
a) Line up and crab (or side slip) down the glideslope.
b) Kick the rudder and lign up with the runway when flaring.
c) Gradually move the roll control into the wind as AC slows down to prevent a roll due to the wind (not simulated in BMS).
The first thing is the easy part. navigate until runway is aligned, then keep the FPM on the threshold.Your nose might have a great offset,but you will arrive on threshold on the right bearing.
The latter thing is the one that requires experience.When to kick the rudder and align the aircraft. Do it too soon and the aircraft will be carried off runway before touchdown.Do it too late and you will hit the runway sideways. IMO aircraft in BMS overreacts in this scenario,and changes direction/rolls too easily.
Anyway, as mango stated,everyone that has issues should run the TE again and again until the described procedure becomes second nature.
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| tiag |
Posted - 07 Mar 2012 : 09:40:24
Did someone check in Dash 1 if the weight/drag factor were compatible with the wind/temperature for this touch and go?
I will take a look later, but it seems, the aircraft was well beyond the allowed safe parameters.....and am not talking about the brake safe conditions.
Tiag |
| Floyd |
Posted - 06 Mar 2012 : 21:10:44
Flight Role: DCA
Python11: Floyd AA=0, AG=0, RTB
Python12: Blade AA=2, AG=0, RTB
Python13: Crowbar AA=1, AG=0, KIA
Python14: Oly AA=0, AG=0, KIA
Outcome: PS
Close to our patrol area we had 2 groups of 4 MiG-29S
in front. The missiles from #1 and #2 missed, but #3
could shoot one MiG down before hit by an AA-12.
At that time the second element of Shark engaged our
western group and the first two MiGs turned east and
attacked Shark #1 and #2. Python12 could shoot down
the remainder of the western group and another bandit
to the east.
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| mango |
Posted - 06 Mar 2012 : 19:48:35
Another bit of input in the wake of "The art of deception" the strike flight was supposed to take off, fly a square and touch and go at Seul ,not exactly a godforsaken dirt airstrip in the middle of nowhere, on one hand ,with nice wide well lit runways but on the other the aircraft were fully laden with munitions+fuel and external fuel tanks too also there was a pretty strong side wind from the east (and the floor was slippery said the fallen dancer...) To cut a long story short we lost 3 out of 4 planes on the touch and go attempt. I decided to retry offline and to my great embarassment have had a 10% success rate 1!! good landing out of ten. 2 Possibilities:or Im losing it (some may say you cant lose what you never had...) or this is the ultimate landing training TE. Try it out gentlemen, climb into a seat on the strike flight and see what happens.   |
| Griffin |
Posted - 06 Mar 2012 : 19:41:40
Totally agree.
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| Elmo |
Posted - 06 Mar 2012 : 16:34:52
Yeah I agree, would much rather drop stores and survive and at least play some kind of a role in a mission then get shot down and possibly cause a partial success for other people. |
| Dmans1 |
Posted - 06 Mar 2012 : 10:10:20
quote:
Originally posted by Joif
Dammit! I am yet to fly a successful mission with you guys... Why is god is smiting me :(
Getting back safely IS a personal mission success. CPL scores is a nice thing to have, but what will make you better, and in the longterm will give you more satisfaction from the missions (that's how i approach missions) is setting aircraft safety as #1 priority.
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| Griffin |
Posted - 05 Mar 2012 : 14:51:40
hehe. Maybe next time...
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| Joif |
Posted - 05 Mar 2012 : 13:11:49
Dammit! I am yet to fly a successful mission with you guys... Why is god smiting me :(
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| Griffin |
Posted - 05 Mar 2012 : 13:03:50
Sorry guys but it was only a partial success because we lost too many pilots (over a third).
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| Elmo |
Posted - 05 Mar 2012 : 10:20:28
Flight Role: DCA
Shark11: Griffin AA=1?, AG=0, EJT
Shark12: Dmans AA=3?, AG=0, RTB
Shark13: Elmo AA=3?, AG=0, RTB
Shark14: Vosene AA=0, AG=0, EJT
Mission Outcome: MS
Flight took off in trail due to wind conditions with Griffin as lead, made our way to stp2 and gained altitude to angles 30. Had jamming contacts on the nose which were sorted with the other DCA flight Python1 as they were closer. 1 & 2 continued towards our FAOR where there were some more jamming contacts and proceeded to engage. 3 & 4 were then very close to the bandits who were engaged with Python1 so I called for 3 & 4 to head East to move away from the engagement. At this point first I got a missile warning and then heard no.4 calling defensive at which point the missile warning dropped from my RWR. The next thing I heard over the radio was Griffin calling that he had been hit and ejected shortly followed Vosene with the same. I then turned to engage the bandit that had fired on us and let off one slammer, not sure if it hit or not due to lack of debrief at the end of mission and then turned North as Dmans was calling for a delouse. I immediately picked up two jamming contacts on his 6 and got burn through very quickly and release another two slammers which I think must of done the job as both contacts shortly disappeared. I was then given lead so ordered us to proceed to our FAOR where we set up a racetrack and remained there until the strike flight had called the dogs are loose and crossed over into our FLOT, at which point I ordered us RTB. On the way back we started hearing AWACS calling about multiple contacts heading towards us but believe they were no threat so continued RTB until AWACS called for us to assist Python1. We immediately turned hot and both got a slammer off each at the first two contacts, not entirely sure if they were both successful but we were both cold and heard from AWACS that all bandits were heading North but we were still getting 29 spikes so both turned hot again to find two bandits still in the sky so proceeded to take them out with our remaining slammers before returning to base.
I think there may have been technical problems with the TE as it was reported that Python flight could not see us on datalink which would of helped with the engagements. I should of called us in hot on the contacts Python were engaging to monitor and engage them as it can never hurt to have 2 missiles taking an enemy plane out rather than ourselves loosing friendly so early on.
I think we should get a SOP for using IVC and checking in properly nice and early like we did last night before we joined the TE to make sure everybody is working and then again in the pit then at least we know if we have to broadcast on teamspeak to include everybody in the fight or even try an alternate channel, people who can not hear the broadcasts have much less SA then those that can if the comms are kept tight. |
| Novac |
Posted - 04 Mar 2012 : 22:49:25
Flight role: Strike
Panther11: Novac: AA=0, AG=0, RTB
Panther12: Joif: AA=0, AG=1, RTB
Panther13: Mango: AA=0, AG=0, RTB
Panther14: Navman: AA=0, AG=0, RTB
Mission outcome: PS
Plan.
Exchanged our Aim120's for heaters with the DCA flights as we would be purely A2G at low level from T/O and changed Mk84's for Mk84-Air for low level attack due to SA3 to our NE.
Go into trail formation at IP with the single target being the reactor.
Once the reactor was confirmed destroyed pilots were free to choose secondary targets.
The Flight.
On the 3rd attempt due to techs and landing errors we got underway with radar off and radio silence.
Unfortunately for Mango he had a black screen on this attempt and decided to rejoin once we were airborne. This left him around 10 miles in our trail and with TOT being tight I elected to push for target being buster most of the way.
To my embarrassment I forgot to switch coms from home-plate to AWAC's, so I missed all of the DCA's action until after the target. 
At stp 11 we broke radio silence and pressed the target. My bombs missed the target but #2 following got the reactor. I believe #3 also dropped on the reactor as he couldn't tell if it was destroyed.
But we were at this point getting calls from AWAC's (Crowebar) saying it was destroyed.
We pulled clear of the target area and held while #4 did his attack run.
Uneventful flight home with a nervous landing to look forward to.
I certainly was nervous, not wanting to screw things up for the 2nd time.
In the event all 4 pilots landed safely!
Enjoyed the low level flying immensely. BMS feels more alive with the jet drifting and bouncing, you need to "fly" the jet all the way to target. Unlike AF where the jet seemed a little tame.
The guys behind me thought I'd left my lights on for ID perposes.....The truth is I didn't dare look to my side to turn the lights off!!!!
No recorded derief txt for this flight.
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